Caitlin Garcia-Ahern: When did you begin working with clay?

Macrina Mateo Martinez: I started working with clay when I was eight years old. I left school to sit alongside my mom and begin to build with clay. I started with little balls of clay, then little tortillas, then miniatures, and eventually pieces from cone shapes.

C: I love how the clay styles change in each town because of the differences in the raw earth. Can you explain a bit of the process of harvesting clay in Tlapazola?

M: We work with both yellow and red clay here in Tlapazola. Here at the bottom of the mountain, we have our yellow clay mine. Where we harvest yellow clay, there is a road, and cars can drive there. To harvest red clay, we have to climb higher up the mountain; neither cars nor animals can get there. We have to climb up and down the mountain, carrying the clay on our backs. We bring large costales, where we put the clay we've collected with barretas.

C: What are your tools, and how are they used?

M: My first tool is a corn cob. My second tool is a piece of a basketball. The basketball helps my piece not stick to the stone. And the stone is my wheel; it is where I create my pieces. Next are soft pieces of leather. The smoother leather is used for creating the neck of a jar, a vase, or pots. The thicker leather is used for making a comal or plate. We also use jicaras. The more round jicara is used for carving out the stomach of a pot. The longer jicara is used for expanding pieces like a comal or plate. Next, I use a thin piece of metal. This tool is used on the 4th day for elaborating the shape of the piece more. And the last tool I use is a river rock that I use to shine the part.

These are all of the tools I use to build my pottery.

C: How many generations have your river rock been passed down?

M: It comes from my ancestors, many years ago. From my great-great-grandfather to my great-grandmother…

C: Do you have a favorite tool?

M: The pieces of leather, because when I'm using them, I am beginning to give form to the work I am going to make.

C: Have you tried to build a piece with an electric wheel?

M: Yes, I've tried building with electric wheels, but I cannot make pieces. I'm more accustomed to my stone wheel.

C: Can you explain a bit of the importance of the comal?

The comal is a piece that has a thousand uses. With it, we make tortillas, quesadillas, and memelas. With it, we heat things. We cook naturally, not using any oil. We prepare our meats, toast all types of seeds, roast chiles, and onions. We also use this piece in the center of the table: for bread, tortillas, or as a fruit plate. We can also even use it as a plate for eating.

C: Tell us a little bit about how you traded with the barter system, trueque, in Oaxaca?

M: With my comal, I began to leave the house, to sell with my mom. She would bring her large pots and carry one of her pots in my arms and my comales on my head, using a cloth to help balance the pieces on top.

C: Was that difficult? Did you break the pieces you were carrying?

M: There were times when pieces broke. When I first started, yes, some pieces fell.

Carrying our pieces like that, I started to trade amounts, going town to town, door to door. Unfortunately, in this period, it was all the trueque barter system. I would trade one of my comales for a few heads of onions, or some chiles… avocado, tomato, or fruits. That's what I would get in exchange for my pieces.

When I began trueque, well, I didn't like it. I wondered why I got so little for my things when it took me ten days to make them. I thought that the people weren't valuing my pottery. I wanted to see the work I put into my pottery in the form of money, but I never saw it.

But my mom told me no, that trueque was okay. She felt very happy trading her pottery. She told me that if they gave us money, we would be buying the same things we were trading for onions, chile, tomatoes, all the things we use in the kitchen and that we consume. For my mom, it was the same, but for me, I didn't like it.

C: Were there other obstacles in your path?

M: When I was 11 years old, I finished elementary school. I told my mom I wanted to continue studying. Why would I work with clay forever if I couldn't sell it? She told me, "No, don't think that way. You cannot leave. This will be your work; you will live from the clay. With it, you will earn your daily bread." 

At that time, a woman didn't have the right to leave the house because of local laws called Usos y Costumbres. 

It made me very sad, and so with tears in my eyes, I had to accept the situation and keep working with clay. It made me think. I had to do something to change the situation. 

C: So, you left the house?

Yes, I left to present my clay in an exposition in Guadalajara. At that time, there weren't cell phones to stay in touch with my family, and I didn't speak much Spanish. Thanks to God, he gave me a lot of strength to get through those challenges. In my community, I was the first woman who took the risk of leaving. I had to jump all the barriers that we have here in the community.

C: How did your mom and neighbors feel when you broke the rules of Usos y Costumbres?

M: My mom was never in agreement that I leave alone, but I did it anyway. My mom suffered a lot when I first left. She scolded me a lot, and the townspeople began to criticize my mom for my decisions. My mom suffered a lot from the criticism.

C: And were you affected by the criticism too? How did you persevere?

M: In the beginning, yes, it affected me a lot. But my brother told me, "Don't listen to people. Whatever you do or don't do, people are always going to talk about you. That has to happen. As long as you have a clear conscience, whatever they say, nothing is going to affect you."

And I had to leave. If I hadn't left, our town would continue to be in the same conditions. Forty years ago, no one came here to visit us or knew that our clay even existed. Why? Because no one in town went out to promote it. They only went out to trade here in the neighboring towns.

C: When your brother gave you that advice, was he already in the United States?

M: Yes. That's how it was, a different perspective. And I followed his advice.

C: And how do you feel now with your clay work and with all that you've achieved?

M: Because of my clay, I am a very happy person, and I am very grateful to my mother.

Before, I thought that working with clay would not allow me to travel to other cities. I thought that only my studies would allow me that. But now I know I was wrong. Now, I am doing more with my clay than I ever thought I would be able to. What I suffered, I am now reaping the benefits of.

My clay trained me in everything. Because of my clay, I changed my way of being - before. I was a very shy woman; I didn't like to talk. Now I am another woman. I am very happy, and I like to speak with everyone. With my clay, I lost my fear.

I had to be very positive in everything I did. I was very positive, and even up until now, I am smiling.